i see a lot of people bitching about CVVC and how it’s ~inferior~ to VCV and they just don’t GET why so many people love it
and when i see posts like that i’m like
do you even go here
no one said CVVC is better than VCV! it is just better than CV and easier to create than VCV! wow, what a concept. it’s not like we already went through this with CV banks or anything.
so the quality is VCV > CVVC > CV, everyone knows this, but CVVC is a minimalist list that has only 24 goddamn samples (26 if you noticed the list is clumsy and tidied it up). that’s less recording than CV. and oh dang, the consonant endings means it’s easier to tell where the sample ends and thus you can make a cleaner OTO! oh snap, the abruptness of the UST style means stronger voices sound way crisper! double dog dang, it’s painfully simple to edit an ust without changing keyboards or reading japanese! you literally do not need japanese at all to record and utilize this list!
there are so many reasons to record with CVVC i can’t help but think the people who “don’t understand why” are just being willfully obtuse
like come on
really
you’re sure you don’t know
I will help crossy on this:
In my own oppinion; CVVC can sound as smooth as VCV if configured correctly… You can see that with Katapira cover of Moonlight Restaurant.
ok PROS of CVVC
- Less time needed to record than VCV
- Less amount of oto’s needed than VCV
- Due before mentioned reasons; easier to make a multipitch voicebank
- Lighter VBs (a tripitch VCV is around 250MB~Ritsu, a tripitch CVVC may be even less than 100MB).
- Vowel enders that will give you more natural sound than the synthetized fade out UTAU gives.
- Can be recorded as Rentan; or as single sounds.
- People can work it as CV, CV-VV, or CV-VV-VC as desired. (on this matter, the reclist can be expanded to record the vowel strings of VCV)
CONS (because I am objective)
- Manual oto editing. Yes, unlike VCV where lots of ppl just run the plugin+p2p3, CVVC needs manual tunning/editing… but what if someone worked on a plugin for it? Viable =/= plugins.
- You can’t steal otos. You need to tune them according correctly.
- One mispronounced sample will make u re-record an entire line (yet, less painful than VCV).
- Harder to find banks (Here I provide a list of my findings: http://tinyurl.com/ccg4gfb)
- So little tutorials out there on this matter.
As crossy says; JP-CVVC is NOT a bad technique… it will give you nicer results than just a CV.
OK….
I am totally in disagreement with you anon… since you do not provide any arguments at all BUT a biased feeling.
Let me tell you about Camila Melodía
- Yes, she was indeed one of the first UTAULOIDS in the overseas; reason of why she is pretty known in both OS and JP sides… and unlike other users that appeared on the same generation; Yesi kept improving her bank.
- Yesi started with a Tandokuon (CV) as most of us… she had to learn and understand basic otos ON HER OWN, and then she started to teach others on this topic (myself included) and a whole generation grow with Yesi and Camila’s help. Camila’s CV has been used by many new users and it’s easy to work with.
- She was one of the first UTAULOIDS in using the Renzokuon (VCV) technique. She was one of the beta~testers of this. People who criticize Camila’s VCVs under the argument she does not follow “Ritsu standards” are plain dumb. Those new users who claim to be “experts on VCV” had the concepts delivered in silver plate… unlike Yesi who had to experiment on all this.
- Camila was one of the first UTAULOIDS to have a spanish voicebank and then a english one (yeah, not a FULL one like Cz list, but at her time it was really appealing). This deserves a lot of recognition in terms of Camila being ahead for her time. Most of the users now having SP voicebanks because of BRUNO and CLARA. Camila had spanish before it was cool 8D! Sasayaki Nunnöru (Public) and Nagareboshi Yue (Private) had SP voicebanks at that time too and it was because of Camila!
- Camila was also tested in the CVVC technique when it started YEARS ago… Yesi used it for JP and it was a private VB I witnessed. She never released it due the fact she already had a VCV.
- The voice is both SOFT and STRONG (Lucid) types… so she is flexible to work with.
- Camila already have GREAT ORIGINALS… even with the limited open-source programs Yesi has, she has exploited them to make Latin-groove UTAU music; a genre that is so little exploited in both UTAU and VOCALOID (the only one I know is AlexTripSands so far).
What you call “highly overrated” is actually a well earned place in the UTAU history; and I am talking about Camila-facts only and not all the contributions Yesi-chan has done to the OS fandom.
And this is why I think OP argument is invalid.
(Source: utauloidconfessions)
Namine Ritsu
Gion Nano
ALSETT
Shinya Yume
Lonomia Obliqua
Yukine Miki
- CV sounds - http://www.mediafire.com/?4aw0jdewae41r4x
- VC sounds - http://www.mediafire.com/?j446v92y0zjk50o
Shōha(声葉?)
Tamashiine Minkoto
Yukiri Mai
- WIP, Release to be confirmed.
Please…. send me an ASK or PM if you know more japanese VBs with the CV-VC format, ok?
Read more
Because I ship my UTAU with many other UTAULOIDs because of reasons:
YUE~RITSU
- Yue admires Ritsu so much as VIPPALOID, he don’t even cares if he is a boy or anything. He thinks Ritsu voice is beautiful and he got so interesed in him. Yet, since they are from different sides of the sea, he feels pretty akward about talking to him. “A VIPPA will never notice an UTAULOID like me” he says while smiling to his newly made Ritsu plushie.
YUE~KASUI
- Yue found a new friend that, unlike other UTAULOIDs, he acted like a bad@ss man. People told him that Yakuzas are dangerous and scary, but he didn’t even care. Obviously was expected that such agenderous attitude of Yue to a manly guy like Kasui would seriously cause issues. Kasui uses to call him a “fag” and kick him away from sight. This dynamic of a rejected puppy.
YUE~YONGJOON
- I secretly ship this XD! This is pretty much Kasui-scenario too… He admires so much the right ways of YJ, but as a carefree soul, Yue don’t fit the military scenario.
YUE~CAMILA
- Camila was the first one to introduce Yue into UTAU, she gave him lessons about singing and such… and having a person who he can talk directly in his native lenguage was pretty much helpful. Yue has a big admiration and respect for Camila, and would help/protect her in case of any problem; as well the other MagicMelodyloids for the respect of a group openening their arms to him.
YUE~HACHI
- One of Yue’s PL. I got this ship from a cover I made of them singing Brella. I imagine Yue finding Hachi crying on a park bench crying, so he covers her with his umbrella and clears Hachi tears with kissu. He takes her to the host club and offers her a cup of tea and sweets, then he listens to her problems with deep attention and make silly jokes to make her smile… Suddenly Hachi comes to the club more often and always ask Yue to be her Host, which he never denies to.
YUE~PUMPKING
- Yue’s PBL. OMG! what can I say of this?! XD! Yue finds Pumpking while visiting Urschrei place… He looks at him closely with his pumpkin head… and he finds him adorable… Pumpking does not understand why this human acts so weird unlike his friends TATARI and Urschrei. Yue then get the habit to visit the Pumpking garden to look for his friend and pet the little prince’ screw.
YUE~LINAKO
- Yue and Linamama…. while people do not understand why Linako suddenly decided to act like a mother to most of her friends, Yue found no problem and enjoy’d being adopted by Linako, and he even calls her mama. This seriously causes conflicts with Mathieu because he says he is not helping Linako (yet he is also a bit jealous of the amount of “quality time” Yue passes with Linako). Linako also sends Yue as her son to call for “Kazuko-auntie” for the tea-time. Their dynamics is full of motherly-dere.
And I will add more as I make more ideas/Headcanons as I have time o wo!!
It came to my attention that new UTAU users really need this.
The above visual diagram is simply how I do it when I’m rushing and just need to get an alpha done for testing.
The real meat of this guide is in the descriptions below, which explains why I do it like this.
HOW TO OTO (in five minutes by me)
Firstly, make sure you know how to edit a UST for your UTAUloid in the most basic sense (fitting the UST to your oto settings)
That’s covered here: http://utaforum.net/index.php?topic=393.0
- A note; Preutterance (red line) is always placed at the exact point where the consonant transitions into the vowel. This is to prevent offtiming. If it’s in the consonant, the sound will start late. If it’s too far into the vowel, it will come in too early.
- The end offset (blue bars) cuts off any fade off you might have on the vowel, and any extra silence. The fade off can be used to effect, depending on voice-type, but in general it should be cut.
- Anything covered by the pink bar doesn’t get stretched on long notes. So it covers consonants, and any volume or pitch fluctuations after that. You can use your own judgement on how far into the vowel it goes, but remember; the less white there is to stretch, the more metallic it will sound.
Hard consonant: The overlap (green line) is in the minus area for all of these (eg, -30, -50). The reasoning behind this is that when you sing or speak hard consonants, a small natural gap is left in front of them. Setting overlap to minus replicates this. Front offset simply covers the silence before the consonant.
Soft consonant: Overlap halfway through the consonant. Front offset should cover any silence, and can be used to cover any extra consonant. It’s hard to make some of these sounds short enough to work well, but since you naturally hold them you can just cut them shorter.
Semi-hard consonant: Overlap just before the main part of the consonant. This is a little hard to see depending on the person, and you may have to mess around a little to find the exact spot. If you’re really having trouble, press the “S” in the oto editor to shed some light on the recording. Front offset cuts off silence, but leave just a little room before the consonant.
Vowel: Overlap and preutterance can either go in the same spot around 12-30ms, or just leave them at 0 if you know how to use crossfade. Front offset covers any fade in and off-pitch sections in the beginning of the recording.
This is just a guide and by no means the be all and end all of good otos. If something sounds off, feel free to mess with it! Go crazy and please, figure out by yourself exactly what Overlap and Preutterance do. You can always put them back in place when you mess them up! I feel a hands on experience is required to understand those fully.
I feel like I’m going to get ripped to shreds by Tumblr for this. If you have a problem I’d appreciate if you brought it up with me privately and we can work it out!
Doing a reference sheet to update my UTAU in the future…
but more like
I needed to release stress OTL
User submitted graphic
People throw up to you shit because your statement lacks on a good argument and you only enounce a biased concept. If you don’t get it, you seriously need help with your english.
First of all… as many ppl said; VOCALOID has pros and cons, UTAU does as well.
“You dont need to edit their voice as hell to make it sound good”.
- I am sorry but you are wrong. UTAULOIDS need a lot of work due the limitations of the software. on VOCALOID you have these amazing parameters on graphical view that let you balance voice, work with dynamics, pitches and so on. Workful indeed, but the result is really good if you do it well.
On UTAU, not all the voicebanks have great otos: CVs may sound choppy, VCV may sound slurry, CV-VC may sound weird if the VC notes don’t have the correct lenght. UTAU lacks of dyamics, which brings a robotic feeling. Same if there’s no pitchwork.
TL;DR - Both need a lot of work to sound awesome and not boring.
“But all of them now just sound unoriginal”
- Then you are possibly tone-deaf. I dont think MEW, CUL, and CLARA sound the same… neither BRUNO and GakupoExtend.
UTAU also have many generic voices with nothing interesting on them… and make a count… VOCALOIDS released so far are 38 (+2 Private ones). UTAULOIDS are over 3000. Now come here and tell me that the 3000 voices are original.
“UTAU recorded with crappy microphone and have no otos can still sound better if you just take time to oto them.”
- Indeed a UTAULOID will sound better if you tune their otos properly… but saying a crappy mic one will sound better than a VOCALOID? OP, you are seriously biased and here is where you even loose more credibility about your knowledge.
Great UTAULOIDS (like Yonagine Kazuko, Sorane Rana, Sonone Linako, Namine Ritsu, Tsukishiro Hakupo, etc) have really nice microphones and the studio quality of them, with a good mixing makes great results and may compare the HQ of VOCALOIDS. Don’t tell me they are on the same tier as one recorded with a laptop or a webmic FGS.
Yes, there are low quality VOCALOIDS: SONiKA and OLIVER are samples of that, but 2 VOCALOIDS will justify the facts UTAULOIDS are superior.
If you read what I wrote OP, you will understand why your confession made to other people is just wrong.
UTAU has great stuff…. VOCALOID has great stuff… VOCALINA I have no idea really, I have it but never used her. But none of them are SUPERIOR to other in any kind… that sounds like a nazi argument to be honest.
Bring the best of each person, and this will be a better world.
Y ya está…
OK, delicious confession and replies makes me wanna comment about this certain topic.
A) Aline: You can’t deny this, at some point have the look of self-promotions. While I don’t deny your theory of “Authentical Admiration” you can’t deny others due the factor of “Self-Promotion”. Why? anonymity. All these confessions have an anon source since recived. It’s like the schrodinger Cat excersice. Both truths can exist on a same souce but, unlike the cat case, we are not able to “open” the box.
Also we need to have in mind the “Quality:Popularity” ratio. If Sorane Rana was never discovered or was little know on the fandom and you post this, I would give the “chance of doubt” due having an amazing quality, a nice and clean desing, etc and not belive in a “self promotion case” and it deserves to be known more. On the other hand, If we save Nekone Sugoi-chan who’s voicebank is pretty breathy, had bad pronunciation, and horrible oto and I have a “she is amazing, she must be loved moe” I would be like… “REALLY?!”
If I valid the theory of “Authentic Admiration” then I would think the OP (non-denko related) have a really bad taste if s/he thinks Nekone Sugoi-chan is amazing and should be INSTRUCTED MORE.
B) Hllwneku: Indeed is rude, there are better ways to expose your dissaproval than using the “WTF” expression.
C) To Aline again: Confession, quottin to webster, says “Confession is a written or oral acknowledgment of guilt by a party accused of an offense”. I dont see the explicit need to say something “possitive” about the topic. I’m just sayin’
D) Myst: I agree… VOCALOID is mainly a fandom, while UTAU is a community (or from my POV more like a high school with the proper “groups”). People gossiping and suspecting is a common routine in this group. That’s why confessions on both sides are held differently.
E) I agree with Scarfu due the exposed on the first paragraphs. Suspecting of self promotion is as fair as saying it’s admiration. Just some facts makes one point more possible than the other.
F) Blaze: I think the most you get involved with many users, or at least checking the new videos everyday (as I do regularly) the more you know. The malasyan community is pretty huge and active. Due problems on the wiki, I got more involved with the Italian one. The Latin and Mexican is also huge, but I can find a lot of users due the fact of watching what they like. It’s just a matter of customs; and on the other hand, as you said before, you are not a whole involved with the UTAU fandom due your own reasons, so don’t use that as argument.
I have no problems with friends promoting friends utauloids, the problem is that, since those “confessions” are anons, you can’t really proof if they did. What if the case is we get a real self-promotion and the person asks a friend to say s/he did? could be true, could be a lie, but we’ll never have a way to know it. So both way of thinkings are valid.
G) Iris: The obvious, but I am sure if one ever selfpromotes, s/he won’t be that “stupid” if we call it somehow to actually say it openly; Obvious dissaproval will come to him/her if they do… and that’s not what they want.
—-
The point here is…. due the fact they were “confessed” here, we now know Hisoka Aki, MAIKO and CO2, Donka Fjord, Nagine Reika, Toune Rui, Portable Box, Jani, Ayane Wakana, Misaki Ukene, Enbukyoku Aline… just to name some of those who I remember atm.
Negative or Possitive, promotion is promotion. We can get people saying “admiration” or “selfpromo”, but at the end they are gettin some fame or recognition anyways without even caring of the audio quality… since we are only watching an image an a name.
So far, I will keep my statement. You can’t blame people of giving their opinions on these topics since the anonymity will support them always.
Y Ya Está.
(Source: utauloidconfessions)
I support:
- CV
- CV-VV-VC
- CVC
- VCV-Lite
- VCV-Full (450-300-100, Custom uniform, Custom non-uniform)
- From 2-moora lists to infinite-moora
- Reversed VCV (yes, theres a technique like that around NND…)
- Multiple Lenguage
- Single Lenguage
- Encoded in Romaji with Kana Aliases
- Encoded in Kana with Romaji Aliases
All of them are good. All of those techniques have their pros and cons. I don’t belive in the supremacy of one technique. Having a world full of ways of making an UTAULOID we are never meant to discriminate other styles.
Back to my last post… When I talked about VCVs won’t make it popular, I meant in due the fact MANY users are flooding now with VCV voicebanks having that in mind (VCV = Popular). No, you are just making a more complex voicebank which will weight more than your first voicebank and, if you don’t understand the basics of oto, it will sound even worse.
I will exclude Sorane Rana of this because her first voicebank was a VCV-full, with pretty high quality, that ended on Kaoling hands and made a beautiful song that became pretty popular having Hatsune Miku as the second voice.
So people, being succesful in UTAU (I wont use “popular” because is a shallow term) has many points:
- Appealing design that avoids or has the less cliché possibles.
- Nicely recorded samples with good pronunciation to the current lenguage recorded.
- Appealing voice.
- Wide vocal range is a great plus.
- Nice oto (pretty important)
- Mixing skills
- Tunning. Yes… UTAULOIDS also appreciate being tunned too.
- Art skills for making good cover art/Knowledge on 3D modeling or basics of MMD.
- Having good relationships with the community.
- Knowing basic ethics between users of all the countries.
- Learn to make your own usts/vsqs-candencii users.
- Make ORIGINAL songs
- Moderation. Less is more (flooding NND or YT with covers is always a no-no; also NEVER push your UTAULOID to other user’s throat)
And that’s what I can think about the topic. Obviously there are other factors in this, but I can’t think them all right now, but I wrote the most obvious. The more you can do from the last points, the better will be, yet nothing is secure.
Y Ya Está…
Random sketches I did while dad was at com.
Mako from Legend of Korra and Namine Ritsu from WaveSound. I had no reference for them so I made them by memory = w=;;
In terms of “a lot of art is needed because you want to cover many songs”; yeah, you are right. And even more if you have a PV idea.
On the terms “I hate the fact art matters so much to be succesful” well… this is a multi-artistic community, and one important point is art. Just think… How VOCALOID became so popular? because of the release of Hatsune Miku.
The nice art of Hatsune Miku catched many people attention (an even in these days many years after, there are STILL people trying to imitate KEI-style art in UTAULOIDS). Before that, the V1 VOCALOIDS didn’t catch as much their public for the lack of quality on the art.
The same thing happens in UTAU. Your tool won’t be so interesting if the cover is not attractive… but it’s never a key to success. If your art is good but your vocals are a fiasco, then you won’t be as much liked/liked at all.
If you are not a good artist, there’s always the resource to learn 3D modeling and create a MMD model and use that (Have in mind that not ALL the MMD models/parts can be edited. Many ppl seem to forget that) Or even ask someone to make you a ripsync/lipsync chibi and use those with UTAU running behind the drawing. That is also cool.
Y Ya Está…
(Source: utauloidconfessions)
